DOVER KENT ARCHIVES

Sort file:- Deal, August, 2019.

Page Updated:- Sunday, 04 August, 2019.

PUB LIST PUBLIC HOUSES Paul Skelton

Earliest 1824

(Name from)

Lord Nelson

Latest 1903

18 (2, 8 & 10) Short Street

Deal

 

Found in the Pigot's directory of 1828 and 1840, and not to be confused for the "Lord Nelson," Walmer, as this was also mentioned in the same directory.

 

Kentish Weekly Post or Canterbury Journal, Tuesday 11 February 1806.

DEAL and WALMER. To be SOLD by PRIVATE CONTRACT.

Good, substantial, and convenient BREWHOUSE, with the Store-houses, Yard and Appurtenances, in the Parish of WALMER, late in the occupation of Mr George Quested:-

......

Another Public House, in Walmer, called the "Lord Nelson," now in the occupation of Mr. Thomas Simmons.

......

For particulars apply at the office of Mr. May, in Deal.

 

Kentish Gazette 24 September 1850.

DEATH. HOLNESS.

Sept. 11, at Deal, Mr. John Holness, landlord of the "Lord Nelson," aged 71 years.

 

From the Deal, Walmer & Sandwich Telegram, 21 July 1858.

POLICE COURT

Saturday July 17th 1858

Before W. Netherside and S. Pritchard Esq.

Mrs. Cooper, wife of Edward Cooper, landlord of the "Lord Nelson," 18 Short Street, appeared in custody having been given in charge of the police on the previous evening about ten o'clock, for committing an assault upon her husband by striking him on the head with a Ginger-beer bottle. Complainant did not appear, to prosecute, and was consequently sent for by the magistrates, who acknowledged him upon the frequency of such cases at his house, this being the third time in which himself and wife had appeared at the court under similar circumstances, and said that on a reoccurrence of such conduct, both parties should  be committed to prison and the licence of the house suspended. Fined 2s.

 

From the Deal, Walmer & Sandwich Telegram, 17 November 1858.

Mrs. Cooper complained of ill-usage by her husband, Edward Cooper. Both parties agreed to separate.

 

From the Deal, Walmer & Sandwich Telegram, 30 March 1861.

E Beazley, landlord of the "Lord Nelson," beerhouse in Short Street charged with ill-treating his wife.

 

From the Kentish Chronicle. 20 August 1859. Price 1d.

PETTY SESSIONS, AUGUST 13.

Edward Beasley charged Sarah Cooper with committing wilful damage to his house in Short Street, and deposed as follows:—

I have recently taken the “Lord Nelson” beer house in Short-street. I agreed to allow him and his wife to remain until they could get another house to remove the furniture into. Last night, about seven o'clock, Sarah Cooper, the wife, was in the tap room, quarrelling with her husband and a soldier who was there. This had been going on for some time, When I went to her and requested her to he quiet; she refused to be so. I then took her out of the room, and got her as far as the bar, when she laid on the floor and promised to be quiet if allowed her to go back. I did so, and the disturbance was repented. Sarah Bowlden the mother of Sarah Cooper, came outside the house and created a disturbance, when Sarah Cooper went out to speak to her, and I closed the door and locked it. A mob collected outside, and they, with Sarah Cooper, endeavoured to break the door open: this was about nine o'clock. She threatened if I did not open the door she would smash the windows; and directly after she threw two large stones, which I now produce. She continued knocking at the door until the police came, when I gave her in charge. She was drunk, but had nothing to drink in my house; her language was the worst I had ever heard a woman make use of. I have taken the house in the regular way from the proprietor, and Cooper and his wife remained by courtesy. Sarah Cooper, on being called upon for her defence, said that she was quarrelling with her husband, who had disposed of the concern without saying anything to her about it; and that Beasley had no right to interfere; and to be attacked by two fellows was too much of a good thing. Ordered to pay 3s. for damages, and 8s. for costs, or 21 days in Sandwich gaol with bard labour. She said that she would go to gaol, but the money was shortly afterwards paid.

(See continuation of Sarah Cooper at "Bricklayer's Arms.)

 

From the Deal, Walmer & Sandwich Mercury, 22 September, 1865.

HIGHWAY ROBBERY.

John Saunders was brought to the bar charged with stealing from the person of John Roy the sum of 18s.

John Roy deposed - I am a labourer, and live in Deal. On Sunday evening, about half-past 5 o'clock, I met the prisoner near Queen-street, and asked him if he would like to have a pint of beer. He said "Yes." We went to the "Nelson," where we had 4 or 5 pints of beer, and I paid for it. We left there about midnight, and went along Beach-street, towards the south-end drain, in company together. We both laid down near the drain, and I went to sleep. About 1 o'clock I was awakened by feeling the prisoner's hand in my pocket. He then ran away, and I found I had been robbed. I know I had four half-crowns, and eight shillings in silver. I followed and overtook him on Prospect-place. I told him he had taken 16 shillings from me, when he said he would kill me, and took out a knife. I called out "Police" and ran away up Beach-street. I went to sleep under a boat till about 4 o'clock, when Police-constable Spicer awoke me, and I told him I had been robbed. When I offered to treat the prisoner he told me he had no money. - At this stage of the proceedings it was elicited from the prosecutor that he had been drinking the whole of the day, and consequently must have been stupid. - It was stated by persons present that prisoner had shown 3 sovereigns on Friday to a landlady of a beer-house, and on Saturday a landlord saw 2 sovereigns and a half in his possession.

P.C. Henry George Spicer deposed - While on duty Saturday night, about 11 o'clock, I saw the prisoner and Roy drinking together at the bar of the "New Inn." They came out, and turned to the south, then turned back, the prisoner again enters the "New Inn," but the landlord turned him out. They next went in a northerly direction; I followed them, and went to fetch my lantern. On my return I met Sergeant Carvill, and while we were standing near the "Black Horse" we heard cries of "Police." It was the a quarter to one. We went in the direction of the cries, but could ascertain nothing until a quarter to four, when I found Roy asleep under a boat near the Pier.

John Garnet, landlord of the "Nelson" beer house deposed - Roy was in and out of my house on Friday, Saturday and Sunday several times. About a quarter to ten on Sunday night Roy and the prisoner came in together. Saunders fetched 3 pints of beer, and paid for it, and Roy engaged a bed for the two, for which he paid 8d. When I was in bed they began to run about the house, and wanted some more beer. I got up, gave Roy the 8d. back, and turned them out of the house. It might have been a few minutes past 11 o'clock. I saw Roy's hand, when he left, a half-sovereign and about 7s. or 8s. in silver. Roy was drunk and Saunders was sober.

John Dorman Warman deposed - I am head Constable of Sandwich. Having received information from Sergeant Cavell, who had traced the prisoner from Deal to Sandwich, I went in search, and found him in a public-house named the "Richborough Castle," when I charged him with highway robbery. I searched and found on him 4 half-crowns, 1 shilling, some coppers, and a purse, which I now produce. The coppers were in the purse, and the silver loose in his pocket.

In defence, Saunders said that when he left Roy he was asleep by the side of the drain, and he went on his way to Sandwich.

The prisoner was committed to take his trial at the next Quarter Sessions.

 

From the Deal, Walmer, and Sandwich Mercury, 29 May, 1869. 1d.

DRINK AND DEBAUCHERY

Elizabeth Ellis, 25, and Louisa Wanstall, prostitutes, were charged, the former with stealing nine sovereign from the person of Daniel Ratcliff, at the "Lord Nelson," beer-shop, Short Street, on Saturday last; and the latter with receiving part of the same knowing it to have been stolen. (Before the evidence was formally taken the prosecutor stated the facts of the case to the Bench, and they thereupon directed that the landlord of the "Lord Nelson," who was present in Court as a spectator, should be placed alongside the other two prisoners, they considered that he was also guilty.)

Daniel Ratcliff, a grey-headed old man apparently close upon 70 years of age, having been sworn, deposed as follows: I am a labourer and live at Walmer. On Saturday afternoon last, about two o'clock, I went into the "Lord Nelson," public-house, in Short Street, Deal, to have some beer. I went into the tap room, and sat down and ordered some beer which was brought me. At that time the landlord's wife and these two girls were in the room, and one of the latter, viz., Ellis, was scrubbing the floor. She got up, however, and came and sat down by me and kept with me all the afternoon and evening drinking beer, the other girl occasionally having a glass with us. At the time I went into the house I had nine sovereigns tied up in a piece of blue rag in one of my trousers' pockets, and another sovereign and some silver in a purse in the other pocket. I paid for the beer as we had it, and in the course of the evening changed a sovereign of the landlord. I did not know that at the time, but he told me so afterwards. About half-past ten o'clock I and the prisoner Ellis went upstairs. When I went to bed I put my trousers under my head. After I had been in bed some time I was awoke by some one who turned out to be the landlord, Henry Blyth. He said to me, "Get up; these young women are going for a walk, and want you to go with them," and I then saw the heads of two women going downstairs. I then missed my trousers from under my head, and said to the landlord who was standing by the bed, "I can't find my trousers," and he said, "There they are at the bottom of the bed." I then got them and dressed, and followed the landlord downstairs. On getting down I found him standing at the front door with it open. I asked him where the girls were, and he said, "Down the corner getting some spirits, as I do not sell any." Directly I got hold of my trousers I missed my money, and told the landlord, who replied, "Money gone" get up and go downstairs." On going out into the street after the girls I did not find them, but afterwards met a man who told me that the girls lodged at the "Lord Nelson," and said I had better go back. I did go back, and called to the landlord who told me to go home and stop till this morrow. I went away again, and afterwards met a policeman, and he and I and the Superintendent of Police afterwards went back to the "Lord Nelson." After we got upstairs Supt. Parker turned the bed about in which I and Ellis had been. I also saw the Superintendent search another bed in the same room, and find a handkerchief, but I did not know what was in it. I then left. I have never known the prisoner before, and never previously been in the house.

The Magistrates expressed surprise that a man in prosecutor's circumstances should have so large a sum on his person, when Ratcliff remarked that he had carried it "over since the election."

Cross-examined by Ellis: We went out a little while in the afternoon and called in at the "Alma." I left you there while I went to my son-in-law's to tea, and called for you again, when we both went back to the public-house and had more beer.

By the Court: I was all right then, and my money was in my pocket - I felt it there. I kept feeling to see that it was all right during the afternoon. I put my trousers under my head when I went to bed. I don't know how long after that it was before I was awoke, nor can I say whether there was any light in the room or not. I gave the girl 1s. when we went upstairs, and I took it from my purse I had in my other pocket. I had arranged to stay all night, and I paid the landlord 1s. 6d. for the use of the room for the whole night.

By Ellis: I came into the "Alma" with my son-in-law.

By the Court: They went in with me to where the girl was. Before I left the girl there whilst I went to tea I told her to have what she liked, and I paid for some brandy-and-water for her. We (I and my sons-in-law) afterwards drank with her, but I don't recollect that I drank any brandy in the "Alma." I don't know what I paid for. I was not drunk at that time. My sons left me at the "Alma" with the girl.

By Ellis: I think it's very likely I paid 2s. for brandy for you. I don't recollect giving you 3s. 6d. after we got upstairs. I was drunk then certainly, or i should not have been there.

by the Court: I don't remember where I put my watch when I undressed. I had last seen the money that afternoon before I left home, as i then took one sovereign out and put it in a purse, as I thought I might want to use it. I had got holiday that afternoon instead of the previous Wednesday.

By Wanstall: I don't remember you bringing up a pint of beer after I an Ellis had got upstairs. I will swear that I saw two females' heads going down stairs, but I can't say you were one of them.

By Blyth: I asked you where my trousers were as soon as I woke, and what you said was, "Oh, you will find your trousers somewhere about."

The landlord in answer to the Bench admitted that he let the room to the girl Ellis and the prosecutor for the night, and further said that shortly after they had been upstairs the girl Ellis wanted to leave the house to get some spirits, and he woke the prosecutor to go with her as they had been together all the afternoon and he thought it best for him to go with her. They had six or eight quarts of beer after they got upstairs and about the same quantity before they went up.

Supt. Parker said: I saw the prosecutor at the police-station about a quarter past one on Sunday morning in company with P.C. Romney. He told me he had been robbed of his money and watch, and wanted to see his sons-in-law, but I could not make much of him as he appeared to be very stupid and seemed as if he had recently been awoke from a drunken sleep. I went to each one of his son's and afterwards went with them and P.C. Romney to the "Lord nelson," beer-shop.

We knocked the landlord up and he came and let us in. I told him what I wanted and he said "It's a bad job, but I know nothing about it." he showed me to the bedrooms where he said Ratcliff and Ellis had slept. I examined the bed and on it I found the watch, knife, and spectacles, and the spectacle-case produced. They were lying just underneath the hedge of the pillow. By the side of the bed I picked up this bit of blue handkerchief now produced. I found nothing more there. There was another bed in the room which was occupied by the prisoner Wanstall and a man, both of whom were apparently asleep. I woken them and they afterwards got up. I then searched that bed also and on the sacking bottom under the bed, I found this white handkerchief and in it I found tied up in one corner, one sovereign, and in another corner two sovereigns, three sixpences and four pence. I asked whose it was and Wanstall said, "It's mine, and you have no business with it." She kept on grumbling while I continued the search and said the money had been given to her by a countryman. She also said "I did not rob the man (pointing at Ratcliff); it was the other girl who robbed him, and she gave me the two sovereigns." She did not say who "the other girl" was and on my asking her her name she said she did not know. I then charged her with receiving the money knowing it to have been stolen and she then dressed herself. Ellis was not there. Wanstall afterwards said to me "When the other girl went downstairs and went out of the door she dropped some money and I called her and said, "You have dropped some money," to which she replied. "____ the money. I want to be off." I then went and looked and found two sovereigns near the door.

By Wanstall: I do not know whether you were "drunky" when I awoke you, but I think you were a little confused. I will swear most positively that you did say upstairs the other girl robbed the man, and gave you the money.

P.C. Pain said: I went in search of the prisoner Ellis fro information I received, and found her singing and dancing in West Street, about eight o'clock yesterday morning. I walked to her and took hold of her by the arm and got her to go with me on the plea of getting some beer. She went very well till we got to St. George's Place when she became suspicious and wanted to know who I was. I then told her I was a police constable i plain clothes and charged her on suspicion of stealing some money from a name named Ratcliff. She said she was worth seven sovereigns which her father had sent her, she was going on a spree and should spend the lot. She said she had got the money in her left hand. I then took her to the station-house and there opened her hand, but found there were only two shillings and two sixpences. Whilst Mrs. Parker was searching her I heard Ellis say she had got seven sovereigns, but the master had got them to take care of till the morning. I then went away and left the Supt. still there.

Cross-examined by Ellis: You were very drunk.

Mr. W. Kelsey was next sworn and deposed as follows: I keep the "Alma Tavern," West Street, and this old gentleman (the prosecutor) has been in the habit of occasionally coming to my house. He came here about 5 or 6 o'clock on Saturday afternoon last in company with the girl Ellis. He went out again shortly after leaving Ellis in the house and told me to give her some brandy-and-water and that she was to wait there till he came back. He returned in about an hour's time with his two son's-in-law, and they all three went into the room and stayed there with the girl till about eight o'clock. During that time they drank four glasses of brandy-and-water and six quarts of beer, but one quart was not quite finished when they left. Before Ratcliff came back one of his sons came in and asked me if the old man was there, and I told him he was not, but that a girl he was with was in the other room. He went in and spoke to her, but I do not think she knew who he was. I went in the room whilst he was talking to her, I heard her tell him the old man had spent about 1 at the house where they came from and that she saw he had got eight or nine sovereigns left. About either o'clock  one of the sons left, and the other three were left behind. The son afterwards came back, and between seven and eight the girl and the old man left. I told the two sons what the girl had said about the money, and wanted them to go after the old man, but they would not. I said he was sure to lose his money, and again wanted them to go after him, but they would not.

Supt. Parker, re-called: When the prisoner Ellis was brought to the station-house by P.C. pain she was very drunk and violent. She was put into the women's ward, and I then called my wife to search her. Whilst this was being done I heard her say that she had not got any money about her, but she had got seven sovereigns at the "dust-hole," where she lodged. I haven't heard the "Lord Nelson" spoken of before as the "dust-hole," and I perfectly well understood where she meant. She also said the master had got the money.

The prisoners were then cautioned in the usual way, when they each replied that they had nothing to say. They were then committed for trial at the next Quarter Sessions, and informed that bail would be accepted, but two sureties of 10 each would be required, and themselves in the same amount.

Wanstall (laughing): We are sure to get it.

Bail was subsequently found for Blyth, but the others have been removed to Sandwich.

 

From the Deal, Walmer, and Sandwich Mercury, 3 July, 1869. 1d.

DEAL QUARTER SESSIONS

The Quarter Sessions for this borough were held yesterday (Friday) before John Deedes, Esq., Recorder, the following Justices being also present:- The Mayor, R. Hazell, and J. Iggulden Esqrs. Theer was only one case for hearing, in which two women of the town named Elizabeth Ellis, 25, and Louisa Wanstall, and Henry Blyth, landlord of the "Lord Nelson" beershop, were charged with having on the 22nd of May, stolen 9, the property of Daniel Ratcliff. The grand jury, of which Mr. W. J. R. Austen was chosen foreman, having been empanelled, and addressed by the learned Recorder, they were discharged to their duties. After an absence of one hour and five minutes the grand jury returned into court with a true bill against Ellis only, who was then arraigned on the charge stated. Mr. Thompson was chosen foreman of the petty jury. The prosecutor was then placed in the witness-box, but his evidence was merely a repetition of that given before the Magistrates, and which appeared in these columns at the time. The evidence of the other witness was also precisely similar to that previously given. The prisoner had no defence to make and no witnesses to call, and the learned Recorder having summed up, the jury retired for about seven minutes, when they returned with a verdict of not guilty, and the prisoner was dismissed with a few words of suitable advice from the Recorder. Mr. Mourilyan was in attendance to defend the prisoner Blyth, who, before being discharged, was reprimanded by the Recorder for the manner in which he conducted his house.

 

Whitstable Times and Herne Bay Herald, Saturday 20 September 1890.

Deal Petty Sessions.

On Thursday Thomas Valentine Selth, landlord of the "Lord Nelson Inn," Short Street, was summoned for having his house open at 10:45 on Sunday morning, 31st ult., and John Bayley was summoned for being on the premises.

For the defence it was stated that Bayley went to the house unwell and said a glass of porter would do him good, and the landlady gave him one. It was stated that Bayley who was so deaf that he could scarcely hear a word what was said, has had three very narrow escapes from drowning, and was one of the survivors from the lugger Reform, which was lost in January, 1871, with 8 of her crew.

The police withdrew the case on payment of the costs, 10s., by Selth.

 

 

I have also been informed that the earliest date someone has evidence of this pub operating being 1820. 1878 saw a renumbering and naming of the street to 190a Middle Street and yet again in 1908 being renumbered to 38 Middle Street, but by then under a different name.

Regarding the renumbering of Middle Street, Deal. The numbers went consecutively along one side of the road and then back down the other. Nobody is certain when the renumbering took place for definite but seems to be finished by 1898. It ended up being odd numbers on one side of the road and even on the other. (Patricia Streater.)

The building was unfortunately bombed during WW2 and has been demolished and now (2019) is part of the Middle Street car park.

 

LICENSEE LIST

SIMMONS Thomas 1806+

HOLNESS John 1823-Sept/50 Pigot's Directory 1823Pigot's Directory 1824Pigot's Directory 1828-29Pigot's Directory 1832-34Pigot's Directory 1839Pigot's Directory 1840Bagshaw's Directory 1847 alehouse

HOLNESS Elizabeth 1851+

COOPER Edward 1858+ Deal Telegram

BEAZLEY/BEASLEY Edward 1859-61+ Kentish Chronicle (age 24 in 1861Census)

GARRETT John 1865+ Deal Mercury

BLYTH Henry 1869+ Deal Mercury

WHITE Mr H S to Feb/1873 Deal Mercury

SELTH Mr T Feb/1873+ Deal Mercury

HAYWARD Harry Thomas to 1896

MILLS Harry John 1896+

HEARN Charles 1902-03+

http://pubshistory.com/LordNelson.shtml

 

Pigot's Directory 1823From the Pigot's Directory 1823

Pigot's Directory 1824From the Pigot's Directory 1824

Pigot's Directory 1828-29From the Pigot's Directory 1828-29

Pigot's Directory 1832-34From the Pigot's Directory 1832-33-34

Pigot's Directory 1839From the Pigot's Directory 1839

Pigot's Directory 1840From the Pigot's Directory 1840

Bagshaw's Directory 1847From Bagshaw Directory 1847

Library archives 1974Library archives 1974

Deal TelegramFrom the Deal Telegram

Deal MercuryFrom the Deal Walmer & Sandwich Mercury

Deal Licensing RegisterDeal Licensing Register

Kentish ChronicleKentish Chronicle

 

If anyone should have any further information, or indeed any pictures or photographs of the above licensed premises, please email:-

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