DOVER KENT ARCHIVES

Sort file:- Canterbury, December, 2023.

Page Updated:- Monday, 18 December, 2023.

PUB LIST PUBLIC HOUSES Paul Skelton

21 Sept 2013

(Name from)

Limes

Closed Sept 2022

(Name to)

13 Rosemary Lane

Canterbury

01227 455164

https://whatpub.com/limes-lounge

Above photo kindly sent by Mark Hourahane.

 

Previously called the "Blind Dog" as well as other previous incarnations, this establishment has now opened as what is described as Canterbury's only gay bar.

The "Limes Lounge and Diner" is the brainchild of 51-year-old Tony Butcher, who sees only good times ahead.

 

From http://www.kentonline.co.uk 23 March 2014, by Gerry Warren

Bosses at Limes Lounge in Canterbury threatened with arson as vicar offers to 'cure' them of their homosexuality.

Tony Butcher

The boss of Canterbury's only gay bar says a vicar offered to “cleanse” its customers and cure them of their homosexuality.

Tony Butcher said he was left flabbergasted when the clergyman popped into Limes Lounge in Rosemary Lane, which he claims has been hounded by homophobic opposition ever since it opened six months ago.

He said: “It was our first Sunday when in came this chap in his 30s wearing a dog collar who suggested we should come to his church where he could cleanse us.

Tony Butcher

Tony Butcher, a director of the city gay bar Limes Lounge

“I have no idea which church he was from and we just laughed it off. But it seems to have set the tone of the reaction to the venue which some people clearly don't like.

“We had one angry bloke threaten to burn us down and now are being harassed by the city council, who are threatening to withdraw our licence because of complaints about noise.”

Now Mr Butcher, who used to run the Girls and Boys nights at the former Studio 41, said: “We have tried everything to be good neighbours but just feel like we are constantly being hounded and targeted.

“It has got to the stage where I think it can only be because of what we are, and some people don't like it.”

But council assistant director Larissa Reed denied the authority was being anti-gay, saying it had a duty to investigate noise complaints.

Mr Butcher said: “The building was in a bit of a state when we took it over and I invested £50,000 in refurbishing it.

Tony says the bar has been targeted because of its clientele

“There have been three complaints about noise which we had done everything we can to address.

“I walk about the city and hear music blaring from pubs, but I would say we are one of the quietest and we never have any trouble.”

It is not the first time the city council has been accused of being anti-gay.

Previously, the authority came under fire from LGBT group Pride in Canterbury for not supporting gay activities in the district.

But council assistant director Larissa Reed said: “We absolutely refute any suggestion of homophobia on our part or that the council has an agenda against this premises.

"We simply have a duty to investigate noise complaints of this nature.

“It has got to the stage where I think it can only be because of what we are, and some people don't like it” - Tony Butcher

“The council has received three complaints from different residents regarding the Limes Lounge since October 2013 when the current landlord took over.

“The complaints all relate to noise outside and also loud music from inside the pub. All complainants have submitted evidence that indicates there are issues of noise at certain times.”

She added: “Our noise officer has been working hard with all parties concerned, including the landlord of the pub, to try and reach an amicable resolution, and this is continuing.

“We would also stress that prior to the current landlord taking over, complaints were also received in 2013 regarding similar issues with the previous landlord.”

 

From the https://www.kentonline.co.uk By Alex Claridge, 29 July 2017.

Limes gay bar in Canterbury suffers abuse and dead pigeon after internet sting.

A city gay bar at the centre of an internet vigilante sting has been subjected to online abuse, threats to burn it down and even had a dead pigeon hurled through the door, says its owner.

Limes’ boss Toni Butcher is in fear for his staff’s and customers’ safety after it emerged last week that a barman had allegedly tried to lure a 14-year-old boy to the bar for sex – only to discover that he had been in contact with a paedophile hunting group.

The 37-year-old barman was confronted by members of the Internet Interceptors, who descended on the Rosemary Lane bar and uploaded five videos of the evening to Facebook.

Mr Butcher terminated the barman’s employment after he was arrested by police, but says that since then there have been threats of violence made to the premises.

On Thursday a dead pigeon was thrown through the front door.

“It had a broken neck with blood everywhere and was obviously killed for the purpose of throwing into the bar,” Mr Butcher said.

“We are being called paedophiles online, we’ve had people shouting through the door or saying that we should be closed down or even that the pub should be burned down.

“I’m not frightened any more. I’m now just angry.”

The Internet Interceptors have trapped dozens of men across the UK by posing as underage youngsters. Videos are then posted online and the police called.

Police have warned against vigilante groups ensnaring people by using fake profiles and officers attended Limes in the wake of the backlash against the pub.

Mr Butcher added: “The police are right behind us on this. They recognise that the attacks on us are homophobic and it’s a very dangerous situation that we’re in.

“But the police have been very good and they are supporting us especially in light of the fact that some people are saying we should all be killed.”

Police spokesman Scarlet Jones said: “We are investigating a report of threatening or offensive communications carried out on social media between 11.59pm on July, 25 and 1.15pm on July 26. “Officers have spoken to the informants and enquiries are continuing.”

They have also bailed Simon Burrin, 37, after he was arrested on suspicion of grooming. He is due back to police on August 9.

 

Certainly still open in 2019, but informed it closed in 2022 due to drugs.

 

From the https://www.msn.com by Daniel Esson - Thursday 16 October, 2022.

The Limes in Canterbury loses licence as 'drugs and gang fights with swords' send shockwaves across the community.

Bar bosses have been stripped of their licence following a string of violations that have been described as the worst seen in 11 years. Councillors have revoked the El Group’s ability to run Limes in Rosemary Lane, Canterbury, after police were called to a string reports of anti-social behaviour.

Limes 2022

Limes in Rosemary Lane, Canterbury.

They subsequently called for the site – which is the city’s only gay bar – to have its operating conditions examined. Ahead of a meeting of the city council’s licensing committee this week, Sarah Whittall, who rents out a house near to the boozer, said: “The problem has been going on for many years.

“After lockdown, during which things had been quiet, [my tenants found] noise levels were sometimes hardly tolerable and events outside often sounded violent and threatening. They decided that this was no place to raise a child, and moved out.

“At one point they contacted us to say that there seemed to have been an attempt to break down the front door the night before. We have not rented out the house since they left last Christmas.”

During the meeting, chairman Cllr Ashley Clark (Con) described the business’ record of licensing violation as “the worst I’ve come across in the past 11 years on this committee”. Police logs show they had also been called to numerous fights, reports of drug dealing in the pub, antisocial behaviour disturbing neighbours, and even “a group with swords”.

They said the doors were staffed by unlicensed security staff who failed to disperse customers properly after closing time, disturbing neighbours. In drug swab tests officers found traces of cocaine and heroin in various places around the business, though the now former licence holder Michael Lee previously claimed the evidence was “absolute rubbish”.

The bar is owned by EI Group Ltd – which itself is run by Stonegate Pub Group, the largest tavern company in the UK with more than 4,000 premises. The company leased the premises to Mr Lee, who was the licence holder and had full operational responsibility for the bar.

However, since the police called for the city council to review the site’s operating conditions, EI Group stepped in – ending Mr Lee’s tenancy and lease, and taking over the licence. In a statement given to the committee, solicitors from Gosschalks, on behalf of EI Group, said Mr Lee “has vacated the premises and will have nothing to do with the premises moving forward”.

Limes has remained shut since he was removed from his position at the end of September. Richard Taylor, who works for Gosschalks, told members: “What was very clear from the papers was that the review was brought by the poor management.

“If we are made aware of significant problems we will deal with them. Until recently, we were not aware.”

Mr Taylor asked the committee to officially revoke Mr Lee’s position as licence holder and install EI Group as his replacement. Under the proposal, the company would hold it for a year after the premises are reopened.

This would give it direct responsibility for Limes Lounge’s licensed activities, even if someone else was operating it. However, the committee was not convinced that responsibility for problems at the bar ended with Mr Lee.

In their decision statement, members said EI Group should have acted with greater haste to put an end to the problems. “The sub-committee was concerned that residents have suffered for a long time from the poor management of these premises,” they explained.

“It is a well-resourced company; it should have paid more attention to how the premises were operated.” Mr Taylor insisted EI Group could turn things around.

He stressed the officials from the firm would liaise with police, who made the request for revocation, on any future operator of the premises. In light of this, and the fact Mr Lee had been removed from his role, PC Jim Gall told councillors the force was no longer requesting a revocation of the licence.

Nonetheless, the committee decided to strip EI Group of its licence for the venue. The company will have to find another operator and leaseholder for the bar, at which point the new operator can apply for another licence.

The future use of the building is unknown, and will be up to the future leaseholder.

 

From the https://www.kentonline.co.uk By Ruth Cassidy, 28 February 2023.

Pub in Canterbury to reopen in former Limes bar as Cardinal's Cap gets £40,000 transformation.

A former gay bar closed down after drug-taking behind the bar was uncovered is set to reopen following a £40,000 refurbishment.

The Cardinal’s Cap in Canterbury will have a different landlord at the helm but retaking a name it first held 200 years ago.

Located in the building previously operated as Limes, Canterbury’s only dedicated LGBTQ+ venue, the revamped boozer is expected to open in April as "a cosy local pub" it was once known as.

Limes was forced to shut after its licence was revoked when evidence of drug use was discovered alongside a range of breaches dubbed the worst seen in the city in more than a decade.

Police called for the club to reviewed after they were called to the bar to break up fights, investigate a sexual assault claim and even tackle a sword-wielding gang.

The site, which has been closed since former publican Tony Butcher lost his right to operate, was known as the "Cardinal’s Cap" from 1820 before being renamed the "Blind Dog" in 2001.

The Stonegate Pub Group, which owns the venue, has now found someone new to run it after investing in the renovations.

It says the works will restore the pub to the “cosy local pub it was once known as”.

Transformations have already begun with a distressed wood bar being installed alongside new decorative floor tiles and blue tartan carpet.

While operating as Limes, the establishment faced ire from neighbours who raised concerns about "intolerable" noise levels and a series of violent and threatening incidents along Rosemary Lane.

This led one landlord, Sarah Whittall, who owns a nearby property to struggle to keep tenants.

Speaking on the licence review application last October, she said: “The problem has been going on for many years. After lockdown, during which things had been quiet, [my tenants found] noise levels were sometimes hardly tolerable and events outside often sounded violent and threatening.

“They decided that this was no place to raise a child and moved out.

“At one point they contacted us to say there seemed to have been an attempt to break down the front door the night before. We have not rented out the house since they left last Christmas."

Former licence holder Michael Lee, who ran the business with Tony Butcher, disputed the claims made about their business and suggested the revocation of their licence was motivated by homophobia.

Stonegate Pub Group, which runs 333 establishments around the UK, is welcoming a new landlord for the pub who they say will bring “high quality hospitality" to the community.

It has not been confirmed whether it will remain a dedicated LGBTQ+ venue in its new incarnation although branding on the front of the building still features the rainbow colour scheme symbolised on the gay pride flag.

A spokesman for the Stonegate Pub Group said: “The Cardinal’s Cap is reopening this April following an investment of £40,000 that will see it transformed into the cosy local pub it was once known as.

“We are welcoming a new publican to the pub, who is looking forward to bringing high quality hospitality and ales to the local community.”

 

LICENSEE LIST

BUTCHER Tony 21/Sept/2013+

LEE Michael to Sept/2022

 

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