DOVER KENT ARCHIVES

Page Updated:- Sunday, 06 January, 2019.

PUB LIST PUBLIC HOUSES Paul Skelton

Earliest ????

Rose and Crown

Open 2019+

Crown Hill

Perry Wood

Selling

01227 752214

http://www.roseandcrownperrywood.co.uk/

https://www.whatpub.com/rose-crown

Rose and Crown 1903

Above photo, 1903, kindly sent by Rory Kehoe.

Rose and Crown 1913

Above postcard, 1913, kindly sent by Rory Kehoe.

Rose and Crown 1921

Above photo, 1921, kindly sent by Rory Kehoe.

Winkle Club 1911

Above photo showing the Winkle Club 1911. Kindly sent by Rory Kehoe.

Rose and Crown 1990

Above photo, 1990, kindly sent by Garth Wyver.

Rose and Crown

Photos taken on 16 May, 2007 from http://www.flickr.com by John Law.

Rose and Crown

Above photo kindly sent by Chris Excell, April 2002.

Rose and Crown 2009

Above Google image, March 2009.

 

Whitstable Times and Herne Bay Herald 31 August 1889.

A VILLAGE TRAGEDY.

Two labourers named Foster and Fletcher, have been arrested near Faversham, on a charge of causing the death of a fellow-workman named John Hammond Smith, aged 21. The three men were engaged at harvesting work on the same farm, and met on Tuesday at the "Rose and Crown" public-house, at Perrywood, four miles from Faversham. Here they had a quarrel, but left about 9 o’clock in the evening apparently reconciled. After leaving the inn, the prisoners set upon Smith and beat him. A passer-by, named Hopkins, says he saw Foster on the top of Smith, the latter being on the ground, and he tried to pull him off. A person living near, becoming aware of what was going on. blew a police whistle for help, and Smith’s two assailants decamped. No one knew what had become of him until his dead body was found in a stable about 50 yards away, there being about 12 deep stabs in his back. The two men were subsequently arrested and have been charged with murder. The deceased was a powerful man, but was not regarded as quarrelsome.

 

Whitstable Times and Herne Bay Herald 31 August 1889.

STABBED IN TWELVE PLACES.

James Foster and James Packman, labourers, of Boughton-under- Blean, have been charged at Faversham Police-court with the wilful murder of Hammond John Smith, at Selling. Inspector Fowle said that he received the prisoners into custody at the police-station from Constable Anderson, and charged them with the wilful murder of the man Smith. Foster made no reply, and Packman said he was there, but "nobody saw him do anything." He searched Foster and found blood on his linen, which he accounted for by saying that Smith struck him, and that was blood from his nose. On proceeding to Foster’s home he found the other clothes he had worn on the night of the murder put in water in a wash-pan. On proceeding to Perry Wood he saw the body of the deceased in a stable, and found it had been stabbed in 12 places. He should be able to call a witness who saw Foster doing something to Smith in the roadway, and who attempted to pull him off, whereupon Packman seized him. A man living at a cottage near the spot heard the disturbance, and came out and blew a whistle. He immediately saw the prisoners, whom he could identify, leave the deceased and hurry away in the direction of Boughton. Prisoners were asked if they had anything to say against a remand. Foster then made the statement, "I was fighting, but I never stabbed him. I will take a dying oath." Packman said, "I never touched him." They were remanded.

 

Canterbury Journal, Kentish Times and Farmers' Gazette. Saturday 21 December 1889.

The alleged murder at Selling.

Joseph Packman, aged 55, and James Foster, 28, labourers, were indicted for the wilful murder of Hammond John Smith, at Selling, on the 29th August last.

Mr. Dering and Mr. Rosher were for the prosecution, and Mr. Biron and Mr. Murphy defended, at the request of the Judge.
Mr. Dering having briefly opened the facts, called the following witnesses:-

John William Marsh, landlord of the "Rose and Crown," Sheldwich, deposed that on the afternoon in question he saw the prisoners, who were strangers to him, in his house. He also saw Thomas Hopkins there between 4 and 5, and also the deceased, who came into the house between 4:30 and 4:45 o'clock. During the afternoon Foster went out to seek for work, and came back at about 6:30 o'clock. He remained in the house until 9 o'clock, and then left with Packman, bidding Smith and witness "Goodnight," shaking hands with both. Five minutes after Smith left by himself, and Hopkins went out half an hour afterwards in company with Daniel Linkins. Witness saw no more of the men that night.

Cross examined by Mr. Biron:- During the whole of the evening he did not notice any fighting in his bar. Most of the customers were in the tap room, including Foster and the other men. There was no quarrelling in the tap room, but Foster, Hopkins, and Smith had a discussion as the which could cut and tie up corn the fastest. The discussion took place at 6:30 o'clock when Foster had come back. When prisoners left they appeared to be on the best possible terms with Smith, who left about five minutes after they were gone. He was sure of that.

His lordship told the witness to shut his eyes and say when 5 minutes have passed.

The witness underwent the operation, and when he had his eyes closed some little time his lordship asked "Well, how far have we got now."

Witness:- I don't know, my lord. (Laughter.)

The Judge:- Well, what should you think?

Witness:- About three and a half minutes.

His Lordship:- You are not so very far out.

Mr. Murphy:- By my stopwatch the time is one and a half minutes. (Laughter.)

Cross-examined (resumed):- Hopkins left with Daniel Linkins, whom he came back to fetch.

Cross-examined by Mr. Murphy:- There was a w.c. at the back of the house accessible to anyone.
Thomas Hopkins, living at Chilham, deposed that deceased had been working for him, and at the time of his death, he was working for Mr. Minter. Between 3:30 and 4 o'clock witness went to the "Rose and Crown." Shortly after that Smith left the house, but while he was there the prisoners came in. He heard a dispute about cutting corn and witness said he would mow anyone an acre of corn for a Sovereign. Packman said he would accept the challenge, and will put the money down. Witness said he would not do that, but will cut him an acre when he liked. Smith and Foster then got talking about who could tie up the fastest, and they each called the others "monkeys." That led to one or the other of them saying I will go outside and see which was the monkey man. They were then angry, and went outside and had two or three rounds together, in the road near the house. That was soon after 6 o'clock. They took their coats off, but not their shirts. Smith said to Foster when they close were off "Are you ready?" Frost replied "Yes," and then they fought, and Smith, who was a more powerful man than Foster, knocked the latter down twice and got the best of the fight. Witness then persuaded them to go indoors, and when they were going in Foster seized Smith by the scarf and gave him a smack in the nose, making it bleed. He also tore the scarf. Smith did not return the blow, but said he did not like the scarf being torn because his sister made it, and it cost him 3s. 2d. He repeated that in an angry tone to Foster several times. The song or two then followed, but the jangling about the scarf was carried on, and witness went away to see to his horses. When he returned the jangling was still going on. He heard them call one another monkey men again, and then witness persuaded them to be quiet. At about 9 o'clock Foster and Packman left, bidding them all good night. Smith was there in tap room. Witness went out a quarter of an hour afterwards. Smith left 5 or 10 minutes after prisoners, and before witness went out. As soon as he got out he heard of struggling over the way in the road, about 16 or 18 yards from the inn. It was dark and witness could not see what was going on. He crossed the road and saw Smith lying on his back, with Foster trying to bang into him with his knees. Packman stood nearby close to his feet. After 2 minutes Smith turned over onto his right side, Foster being still on him, and Smith cried out, "Leave off, Jem, for I have had enough of it, help me." Foster kept banging into him making a hissing noise through his teeth, and he heard Foster say "I will kill you, you _______, before I have done with you." Witness then went to pull Foster off, when his hand slipped, and he fell backwards, Foster then said "Who is that b______ interfering with me?" and Packman said "I don't know who the _____ is; I will keep him away, you give him (Smith) what he wants, and then get up and serve the other one the same." Foster still kept banging into Smith's back and making a hissing noise. Just before he left off Smith said "The _______ is stabbing me." Foster than came to attack witness, but seeing him, he said "Oh, it's you, Hopkins, I don't want to interfere with you." Both Foster and Packman had got their coats off.

By the judge: The prisoners picked up their hats and clothes and were soon off.

Witness went into the "Rose and Crown" for assistance as Smith's elder brother who was there would not come. Daniel Linkins came out, but when they went across the road Smith was gone, and they could not find him although they shouted for him. He went into the stable about 9:55 o'clock, but Smith, who was in the habit of sleeping there, was not there then.

By Mr. Dering:- The next morning he saw a pool of blood where the struggle took place. On going to his stable at 5:45 o'clock he found Smith in a shed next to his stable where witnessed cut his greenmeet. He looked into the shed the night before, but Smith was not there then. He found Smith covered up with some sacks and bags, lying where he laid a good many times. He took the deceased some tea, but not thinking there was anything seriously the matter with him he did not go for a doctor. Deceased did not say anything to him when he gave him the tea. The prisoners and deceased were all sober on the previous night. I did not see any knife or weapon in Foster's hand, it was too dark.

Cross examined by Mr. Byron:- Could not say whether Smith was first to use the expression "Monkey man. He said before the coroner that's Smith knocked Foster down two or three times. At the close of the fight Foster said to Smith "You are a better man than I am, we will go in and have a pint together," and they went in and had a drink together. It was a vicious blow that Foster gave to Smith after the fight, as they were going into the house. When Smith was on the ground and Foster on him witness heard him say "Do help me Jem" by which he must have meant by Foster or Packman. He did not see a man named Beck standing by at the time, but he did see a man named Gammon standing at his gate while the assault was going on. He did not ask Gammon to assist him pulling Foster off Smith. He did not know that the assault had had such a serious result at the time of its occurrence.

Cross examined by Mr. Murphy who defended Packman:- There was no quarrel between Packman and Smith, who were very friendly at the "Rose and Crown." He had no idea a knife was being used, it was too dark to see it.

Re examined by Mr. Dering:- When witness try to pull Foster off Smith someone struck him knocked him down.

By the Judge:- Smith was in the habit of joking and larking, and witnessed thought he was joking when he said he was stabbed. He was a great big powerful fellow, and a little too fond of showing his strength.

George Beck, a labourer, living at Selling, deposed that he lived about 25 yards from the "Rose and Crown," and on the evening in question he saw prisoner come out of the public house and stand in the road a few minutes about 10 or a dozen steps from the door. In a few minutes afterwards Smith came out and witness heard him say something about tearing his scarf, but he did not appear to be angry. He said heard Foster say "You called me a monkey man," and then Foster rushed at him and punched him with his fists. The next he saw Smith on the ground lying on his face, with Foster "banging" on him. He heard Foster say two or three times "I will kill you, you _______, whilst Packman was standing at his feet, saying "Give it to the _______ now you have got him." He saw Hopkins go to Smith's assistance and try to pull Foster off, when he slipped and fell. Foster came to witness and struck at him, and then went to Hopkins, to whom he said "Oh, it's you, Hopkins, I don't want to interfere with you." He did not hear anything said by Smith while he was on the ground.

By the judge:- He saw prisoners walk away, after which Smith got up and went towards the wood. The prisoners bode witness "Good night" as they passed him.

Re-examined by Mr. Rosher:- He saw a pool of blood in the road next morning.

Cross-examined by Mr. Biron:- Prisoners were 15 yards off witness when the assault was going on, and it was very dark. He could not see distinctly what happened, but he heard more than he saw. When Foster said that Smith had called him a "monkey man" the last replied "So are you."

Thomas Gammon, father-in-law of the last witness, spoke to seeing the deceased and Foster fighting at 6 o'clock. Later in the evening he heard Smith say, when on the ground, "You've done it, you've done it, you've done it!" and then Foster said "You ______; I will kill you." At his daughter's request he blew a whistle to bring assistance. The next morning he covered the blood up in the road.
Cross-examined:- He knew Smith and had worked with him, so that he knew his voice very well. He did not think there was anything serious going on, having seen so many of the drunken fights and squabbles.

The Judge:- I hope they don't all fight in this way in Kent.

James Hopkins, son of the previous witness of that name, deposed that on the morning after the occurrence he saw in the road a pool of blood, a hat, a piece of a shirt sleeve, an umbrella, and three bills (produced). [It was stated that the bills belong to Foster.] When he got his father's stable he found Smith lying on his left side near to one of the horses. Witness helped him into the next shed and laid him on some sacks and put some more sacks over him. That was shortly after 4 o'clock. At 10 o'clock he found Smith dead where he had left him.

Cross examined by Mr. Biron:- He did not think deceased was much hurt when he was, or he should have sent for medical assistance.

Thomas Lamprill, a labourer, living at Sheldwich, deposed that he went to the stable on the morning of the 21st, and found deceased lying with his head over a tub; witness took hold of his hand and found him quite dead.

P.C. Anderson, K.C.C., deposed on the 21st August he went to Hopkins shed at about 11 o'clock and found the body of the deceased in a crawling position. There were cuts in the back of his waistcoat and shirt, both being stained with blood. he examined the body and found 12 stab wounds. He found blood in the road opposite the "Rose and Crown" and in a field near. He also traced blood to Hopkins' stable, and at the back he found deceased's coat, in which there were no cuts. He then went to Mr. Winters field and apprehended the prisoners, who were cutting corn. On telling them the charge Packman said, "Is he dead?" Witness replied, "He is," and then Packman said, "I know nothing about it; I did not know anything about it until my mate told me this morning." Foster said, "I did not kill him." Witnessed asked him, "How do you account for that blood on your undershirt?" To which he rejoined, "That came from my nose; Smith gave me a punch in the nose last night, and you would not like a punch in the nose for nothing, would you?" He then told them to turn out any knives they have got, and Packman gave him the one produced (a large shut knife.) On searching Fosters dinner bag lying here at the time witness found the knife produced (a black handled knife.) Witness ask Foster if that was all the knives he had and he replied "Yes, and I did not have that knife with me yesterday." He then took the prisoners to Faversham Police Station, and afterwards, in company with another Constable, he went to Fosters house at Boughton and found on the shelf there a very large pocket knife, which was wet, as though recently taken out of the water. There were on it what appeared to be blood stains. [The knife was handed to his lordship.]

Cross examined by Mr. Biron:- He did not take down the prisoners statement in writing. He searched Fosters house between 3 and 4 o'clock.

Inspector Fowle, Faversham, deposed that on 21st August the last witness delivered the prisoners into his custody, and when he charged them Packman said "I was there, but no one did not see me do anything." Foster made no reply. He examined Packman's clothes, but found no blood. On Fosters clothes he found blood on his undershirt, braces, and neckerchief. He accounted for the blood by saying that a man hit him on the nose at Perrywood yesterday, and that caused it. Foster told him that the braces, undershirt, and neckerchief were what he was wearing on the day before. On examining prisoners house he found trousers, shirt, and strap, which were wet as though they had been recently washed, but there were stains on the clothing which she believed to be blood stains. While Foster was in his custody at the inquest he said "I will take my oath I never stabbed the man, and the knife you have there I have not had since Sunday."

Cross-examined by Mr. Biron:- The knife was an ordinary labourers knife, such as were turned out by the hundred.

By the Judge:- He did not find any cuts on the prisoner Foster, but there was a slight scratch on one of his ears, which might have been caused by a blow. On the back of the fingers on one of his hands there were cuts which prisoner said he got two or three days before in sharpening the scythe.

His lordship ordered the knife on which there were alleged to be blood stains to be microscopically examined by the county analyst.

The prisoners statement before the magistrates were then put in and read, the effect of Foster's being that he did not stab the deceased, and that of Packman's was that he was totally unaware that when Foster was on Smith on the ground he was using a knife.
Mr. Walter Scatchard, surgeon at Boughton under Blean, was next called, and he deposed that he had, in company with Mr. Adams, made an examination of the knife, under the microscope, and found on it what appeared to be corpuscles of blood of some mammal, but the tests have not been sufficiently complete to enable him to swear positively. It would take all the afternoon to complete the test. The marks were more distinct on the handle of the knife. At present he wasn't able to say whether the blood was human. It was not that of a bird or fowl. The witness then proceeded to describe the result of the post mortem examination. He saw the deceased lying in an outhouse, minus his shirt, but with his trousers on. He was a well nourished man, and on his back were 11 wounds, cutting right through all the skins; all were on the left side of the spine, except two. [Witness indicated on the usher of the court the position of the wounds on the deceased body.] Nearly all the wounds were in the same direction and at about the same length, but they varied in death. All the internal organs were healthy, but one of the lungs was full of blood. Between the 11th and 12th rib there was a wound right through the body, and through which he could put his finger. No doubt the haemorrhage produce from that wound. He attributed death to the lowest wound on the left side, all the wounds appeared to have been produced by the same instrument. The small blade of the knife produced would have caused the whole of the wounds on deceased's body.

Cross-examined:- If he had been called in directly after the wound had been inflicted he did not think he could have saved the man's life. He could not have stopped the internal bleeding. There were only two of the wounds that were serious. It was the bleeding from the lower wounds which caused the lung to collapse, and thus produced death.

Mr. Dering here withdrew the charge of murder against Packman, and said he could not ask the jury to find the prisoner guilty of anything more serious than manslaughter. He could not contend that he absolutely knew that Foster was using a knife when he had Smith on the ground. He then proceeded to some of the evidence for the prosecution, and submitted that it left the jury no option but to find the prisoner Fosters guilty of murder, he having received no provocation sufficient to justify him in the use of the knife.

Mr. Biron next addressed the jury on behalf of Foster, remarking that he did not intend to say that Smith did not meet his death at the hands of the prisoner, but he thought he should succeed in showing them that there were circumstances which would reduce the crime to that of manslaughter. He then proceeded to review the evidence which he contended would justify the jury in saying that the deed was committed in hot blood, and under such circumstances of provocation as reduced the crime to that of manslaughter, and which Smith, who was the stronger and better man of the two, brought the assault on himself. He suggestion was that Smith drew the knife in self-defence, and Foster took it from him, and that the deceased sustained the wounds in the back during the rough-and-tumble struggle which followed.

The jury acquitted Packman and found Foster guilty of manslaughter. He was sentenced to 14 years' penal servitude, the Judge telling him that the crime of which he had been convicted was as near murder as it was possible to be. Had he left off beer probably this would never have happened.

 

Illustrated Police News 31 August 1889.

ALLEGED MURDER NEAR FAVERSHAM.

The coroner's jury who were called together at Perry-wood, near Faversham, to inquire into the death of Hammond John Smith, a labourer, who was on Tuesday night subbed in twelve places during an affray near the "Rose and Crown, having returned a verdict of wilful murder, the two men in custody—James Packman, fifty six, of Dunkirk, and James Foster, twenty-eight of Boughton, were on Saturday brought up at the Faversham County Police-court, when the magisterial inquiry was proceeded with before Mr. W. E. Rigden.

The evidence of the several witnesses went to show that on Tuesday afternoon deceased and the prisoners were at the "Rose and Crown," Perry Wood, though not together. They subsequently were there in the evening, and Smith (the deceased) and Foster quarrelled, and agreed to fight. They went out stripped, and had three rounds, Foster being knocked down twice. In the third round they closed and fell together. When Foster got up he said that Smith was too good a man for him, and asked Smith to go into the house again and have some beer. On the way in Foster seized Smith's neck handkerchief, tore it in two, and threw it back to him, and although they were drinking together Smith seemed vexed about the scarf being torn. Soon after nine o'clock the two prisoners got up and went out, and a few minutes afterwards Smith went out too. Prisoners were still outside, and deceased spoke to Foster about tearing the scarf, when Foster said, "You called me a monkey man." Smith answered, ''And so you are;" whereupon Foster rushed at him, and got him down on the ground and kneeled on top of him. He appeared to be punching him, and Smith called out, "Do help me, Jim," and presently turned over and said, "I have had enough, let me alone." Foster repeatedly said, "I'll kill you before I leave you." Packman said to Foster, "Give it to him now you have got him." A dealer named Hopkins, who came out of the "Rose and Crown" and saw the struggle, tried to pull Foster off Smith, whereupon Packman threatened him, and said to Foster, "I'll keep him away till he (Smith) has had enough, and then you get up and serve the other man the same. "After this Smith called out that Foster was stabbing him. None of the witnesses saw a weapon. A whistle was blown by Thomas Gammon, who lives in a cottage a few yards away, and Foster got up. The deceased still lay on the ground calling for help. No one rendered him any aid, a circumstance upon which the magistrates severely questioned one or two of the witnesses, and upon which the coroner animadverted on Friday. Hopkins said that he was sober, and so were prisoners and deceased, so far as he knew. Early on Wednesday morning the deceased was found in Hopkins's stable, sixty yards from the scene of the affray, which was marked by pools of blood, and here there were also picked up a hat, and umbrella, the sleeve of the deceased's shirt, which was torn off, and three beer scores made out in the name of Foster. Hopkins and his son both saw the deceased and gave him some and assisted him to the chaff lodge, where they placed him on some bags and covered him up. He complained of being chilly. Hopkins, in answer to the magistrate, said he did not send to Smith's friend, for he did not think Smith had been hurt so much. Lamprill, a labourer, went to the stable, and found Smith dead. The same day Police-constable Anderson apprehended the prisoner on a charge of murder. Foster's under vest, braces, and scarf had blood upon them, and at his cottage a shirt, trousers, coat, and handkerchief were found, some in water and some having just been taken out. A pocket knife was found on a shelf, having apparently been recently taken from the water. There was a mark of blood near the rivet. Dr. Scatchard said he found twelve incised wounds, one on the left side and eleven on the back, nine of which were on the left of the spine. The wound that caused death was between the tenth and eleventh ribs. Foster had made a statement to the inspector of police that he did not stab deceased, although they fought together. The evidence having been taken, Superintendent Mayne asked for prisoners to be remanded for a week. They were accordingly remanded, all the witnesses being bound over to appear again.

 

LICENSEE LIST

HARRIS William 1841+ (age 65 in 1841Census)

SUTTON John 1861-74+ (age 33 in 1861Census)

SUTTON Thomas 1881-82+ (age 51 in 1881Census)

MARSH John William 1889+

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