Above postcard, date unknown.

Above postcard, circa 1910.

Above photo 28 September 2016, by kind permission Chris Mansfield. http://www.chrismansfieldphotos.com/

Above photo 2019.

Above photo 2019.

Above Google image 2023.

Above sign 2019.

From the https://www.fromthemurkydepths.co.uk By John Smith 6 April 2023.

Plumstead pub demolition proposed.

An application has been submitted to demolish The Who’d a’ Thought It pub in Plumstead and construct seven houses.

In June 2021 there was a plan to retain the pub building with homes built either side. That was refused by Greenwich Council.

2021 plan.

The latest application states: “The pub is leased by UK pub operator Punch Taverns, who sub-let to a landlord on a tied lease basis. The pub is in a poor state of repair, but it is not considered economically viable to provide funds for refurbishment.”

“As the Property does not have an adequate trade kitchen and only a small trade area of 1,821 sq ft, it would not attract ‘destination’ customers.”

Proposed homes in 2023 see pub demolished.

The Who’d a’ Thought It is located in the Slade close to shops and Plumstead Common. It’s a locally listed structure which affords less protection than national listing.

It dates from 1845 and is structurally fine with the Design and Access Statement stating “generally the building is tired and poorly maintained however it is in sound condition”.

From the https://853.london

Historic Who’d A Thought It pub in Plumstead faces demolition in plan for new houses.

An historic Plumstead pub with links to Arsenal football club could be demolished and replaced with seven houses if developers have their way.

The Who’d A Thought It, which dates back to the 1840s, “has been commercially unviable for a number of years”, according to the Clapton-based property company Goldenspark (Timber) Ltd, which wants to erect a row of terraced homes on the site.

The pub, on Timbercroft Lane, was historically known as one of the Five Idlers of Plumstead Common, featured on postcards with the rhyme: “The "Star" which doesn’t shine in the sky, the "Woodman" who doesn’t cut down trees, the "Ship" that cannot sail the seas, the "Mill" which doesn’t grind corn, and "Who’d a Thought it!"”

Four of the five Idlers survive, with the "Woodman" now a restaurant.

The Who’d A Thought It was also once owned by Jock Craib, a chairman of Woolwich Arsenal football club, which played nearby before moving to Highbury in 1913.

“Plumstead Common is well visited by local residents. However, the pub is situated in an area that does not benefit from passing trade,” a viability assessment submitted to Greenwich Council says. The pub is leased to Punch Taverns, which sub-lets it to a landlord who then has to buy his products from the company.

“Aesthetically the pub is not an attractive venue, externally the general condition is poor whilst internally the layout and general decor dated.”

The developers say the pub is on the market for £1.2 million, which they claim is “a reasonable price”. Goldenspark bought the site for £1.1 million in February 2018, according to Land Registry documents.

Render of new homes to replace Who'd A Thought It.

The developers’ view down Timbercroft Lane.

A previous plan to keep the a smaller pub and build five homes on the site was refused by council officers in July 2021, without it going to a planning committee. The officers said that the developers had “not provided any evidence to confirm that the existing public house in its current extent is unviable”.

The pub is just off The Slade, where Greenwich Council spent £550,000 on creating a new cafe out of a derelict building in 2018 and offered the occupiers steep rent discounts to help them get started. While the business was welcomed by locals, the project caused controversy as a residents’ party was standing for election at the time in protest at perceived neglect of Plumstead, and no other areas of the borough were receiving similar help.

New homes render. The seven homes would be designed to match their surroundings.

The new homes would all be three storeys with three bedrooms and designed to fit in with the Victorian terraces surrounding them. They would have one car parking space each.

All would be for private sale or rent, as only seven homes are being provided, less than the threshold of ten homes needed for so-called “affordable” housing.

From the https://853.london By Darryl Chamberlain, 18 May 2023.

Plans to knock down Plumstead’s historic Who’d A Thought It pub refused.

Plans to demolish The Who’d A Thought It have been rejected.

Greenwich Council officers have thrown out plans to bulldoze a historic Plumstead pub and replace it with seven houses.

A Clapton-based property company, Goldenspark (Timber) Ltd, had claimed the Who’d A Thought It on Timbercroft Lane was unviable.

The Who’d A Thought It was historically known as one of the Five Idlers of Plumstead Common, featured on postcards with the rhyme: “The Star which doesn’t shine in the sky, the Woodman who doesn’t cut down trees, the Ship that cannot sail the seas, the Mill which doesn’t grind corn, and Who’d a Thought it!”

Four of the five Idlers survive, with the Woodman now a restaurant.

The pub also has historic links with Arsenal football club, being once owned by Jock Craib, a chairman of the club in the years before it moved to north London in 1913.

There had been 18 objections to the proposal, with six people writing in support of the plan to knock down the pub and replace it with a row of terraced houses.

Greenwich Council officers found that there was little evidence that the pub was unviable and said that demolishing the building, which is on a local heritage list, would harm the area. Supporters included the pub landlord who said that the pub, which is leased to Punch Taverns, is “in extremely poor repair including the kitchen area which suffers from a roof leak and is no longer fit for purpose”.

But council officers said in their report that a viability assessment dated October 2021, when the country was emerging from the pandemic, was “no longer considered recent or relevant to today’s market conditions”.

Four of the five Idlers still exist as pubs.

“Upon a site visit the public house was open and trading, however it is noted from the representations received from neighbours as well as the existing landlord that opening hours are often sporadic due to the poor state of the pub which makes regular opening difficult,” the officers’ report said. “These ad hoc opening hours are not conducive in supporting a successful public house at the site. However, it does show that [the pub] is still in use.

“It is not considered that the applicant has fully explored all options on the site which would seek to retain the public house in a much-improved form which would be a preferable option given the importance the public house could play within the community in the future.”

Council officers questioned why an apparently unviable pub had been up for sale for £1.2m over recent years without a reduction in price. Goldenspark bought the site for £1.1 million in February 2018, according to Land Registry documents.

The officers also said that there had been no attempt to consider reusing the building if the pub was unviable.

The pub is just off The Slade, where Greenwich Council controversially spent £550,000 on creating a new cafe out of a derelict building in 2018 and offered the occupiers steep rent discounts to help them get started. Supporters of the pub’s demolition said the Slade Cafe was a “more suitable venue for socialising for residents”.