DOVER KENT ARCHIVES

Page Updated:- Tuesday, 14 March, 2023.

PUB LIST PUBLIC HOUSES Paul Skelton

Earliest 1749-

Rose and Crown

Open 2020+

Lower Hartlip Road

Hartlip

01795 842448

https://whatpub.com/rose-crown

Rose and Crown 1899

Above postcard, circa 1899, kindly sent by Rory Kehoe.

Rose and Crown 1899

Above photo, 1899, kindly sent by Rory Kehoe. Showing a better image than the one above.

Rose and Crown 1950

Above postcard, circa 1950, kindly sent by Rory Kehoe.

Rose and Crown 2015

Above photo circa 2015.

Rose and Crown sign 2015

Above sign 2015.

Rose and Crown

Above photo, 21 July 2019, kindly sent by Terry Davis.

Rose and Crown 2019

Above photo, May 2019, kindly sent by Rory Kehoe.

Rose and Crown 2019

Above photo, August 2019, kindly sent by Sharon Black.

 

Excerpt from the Hartlip & Stockbury Forum, April 2019.

Hartlip's Rose and Crown - two pubs or one?

One story has it that there were once two public houses in Hartlip. One was called the "Rose" and the other the "Crown." At some stage they joined and moved to the Lower Road to become the "Rose & Crown." But is there any documentary evidence for this?

The earliest piece of evidence we have seems to suggest the story is not true. There is a reference to an "alehouse" called the "Rose & Crown" from the London Gazette for January 1749. The notice is for the auction of land that belonged to the Shrubsall family. It is clear that the alehouse was being used for large gatherings in the area and was one building (no phone bids from other venues in those days.) Where the "Rose & Crown" was located is not stated.

 

London Gazette, January 1749.

To be sold, January the 3rd, 1749, at the "Rose and Crown" Alehouse in the Parish of Hartlip in the County of Kent, Several Leases of Fruit-Land, &c. Part of the Estate of the late James Shrubsall, deceased, of the said Parish, (to wit) From the late William Tyndale, Esq; William Tylden Esq; and Mrs. Hasted, A Stone-house for Fruit at Otterham Key, in the Parish of Upchurch: The School-house and Grounds thereto belonging, in Hartlip: A Lease of a House from Borden Trustees: And also a small Freehold Estate lying at a Place called Pigs Hole in the Parished of Breadhurst and Detling, with three Acres of Wood in Hartlip aforesaid.

 

After this, there is some evidence from the census that muddies the water somewhat. In the 1841 census, two public houses are listed in Hartlip. In those days the census was filled out by an "enumerator", in Hartlip's case the local school master. The entries followed the layout of the village but the addresses were usually just "cottage in the street", etc. so it is often difficult to work out which house is being described. One public house, described as the "Rose" was near the Vicarage and so was probably in what is now Wisteria Cottage. The other inn in Hartlip was situated on the Lower Road, presumably roughly where the present pub is situated. Whether its name was the "Crown" is not known as it was simply entered in the census as "Public House."

In the next census, in 1851, there are still two public houses listed in Hartlip. These are the "Rose & Crown" situated in The Street, presumably this is Wisteria Cottage, and a pub called the "William the 4th" in what was called Lower Hartlip Street.

At some time in the 1850s, the "William the 4th" seems to have changed its name to the "Eagle." At least, this is the impression given by the entry for Hartlip in Melville and Company's Directory of Kent for 1858. The "Eagle" is managed by the same person who, in 1851 census, was managing the "William the 4th. The directory shows no mention a the "Rose & Crown" so it seems that the pub in the Street had closed.

In the 1861 census, the two families from the previous censuses who managed the public houses have now both moved away. The Coulters, from the "Rose & Crown," seem to have died and their children are living with aunts and uncles. The Flints, from the "William the 4th" or the "Eagle," have moved to Sittingbourne. But, now there is only one public house recorded in Hartlip. It is entered as the "Rose & Crown" and is located in "Hartlip Road, Lower" according to the census.

In 1871, the census shows that the "Rose & Crown" is still being run by William Parsons and his wife. They are buried by the North Door in the churchyard. Finally, in the 1881 census, we see that the "Rose and Crown" is being run by the Kitchingham family. All of these Kitchinghams are buried under the yew tree on the south side of the church.

The present "Rose and Crown" dates from the 1930s. The pub before that is shown on the front cover of the magazine. This photo is thought to date from 1881. It is said they sold sweets to children from glass jars just inside the door.

So there is no evidence that we have found that suggests a pub called the "Crown" ever existed in Hartlip. Although the early census calls the pub in the Street the "Rose" it is quite possible that it was actually the "Rose & Crown." The early census is not noted for its accuracy.

All this is rather sad, as the joining of the two pubs made a nice story.

Peter Blandon.

Kentish Gazette, Tuesday 9 August 1791.

A few days since at Hartlip, Mr. J ???? master of the "Rose and Crown" public house, at the same place.
 

 

From the marriage records it seems as if Emily Parsons, who was there with her parents in 1871, married Thomas Kitchingham, who became the licensee by 1881 and after Thomas died Emily took over.

I have a bit of confusion here over the date and have the newspaper article mentioned as 1946. Less there is another person with the same name.

 

From the Kentish Chronicle, 5 March, 1864.

SUICIDE BY HANGING.

Last week an inquest was held at the “Rose and Crown,” Hartlip, before T. Hills, Esq. on the body of Henry Cogger, aged 71, which had been found hanging in a wood on the previous Saturday.

Mrs. Catherine Honeysett said that she had lived next door to the deceased for about three months, and knew him. She last saw him between nine and ten o'clock on the morning of Saturday, February 13th, when he was leaving his house by the back way.

James Croucher said he went to Potter's Wood, where he found the deceased hanging by his neckerchief to a projecting branch of the stump of on old beech tree. He told Mr. Dodd, farmer, who gave information to the police.

Dr. Henly, of Newington, said that he attended deceased about six weeks since, his mind was in a weak and morbid state, for fear that he should come to want. In his opinion the body had been hanging for a week.

Mr. Webb, farmer, Hartlip, said that the deceased had worked on his farm as a labourer for 30 years, and had worked for his family for upwards of 50 years. He had always found him to be an honest, civil, industrious, sober man.

Verdict, “Temporary insanity.”

 

East Kent Gazette, Saturday 25 January 1946.

Licences Transferred.

At the Petty sessions on Monday the following licences were transferred:-

"Rose and Crown," Hartlip, to Mrs. Emily Kitchenham on the death of her husband.

 

 

From the http://www.courier.co.uk  26 October 2011. By East Kent Gazette.

Alpaca farmers help pub pair's green scheme.

A PUB landlord and a herd of alpacas are doing their bit to reduce climate change.

Paul Russell and wife Wendy at the "Rose and Crown" in Hartlip decided to plant a group of trees in the village, partly to replace a large yew tree they had to cut down because it was damaging their property but also to offset their carbon footprints.

Experts suggest the average person would need to plant seven trees a year to make up for the amount of greenhouse gases they cause to be released into the atmosphere.

The Russells realised their pub garden was too small to accommodate such planting so enlisted the help of regulars Andy and Kirstie Brown at nearby Valley Alpacas Ltd.

Paul, a builder by trade who entered the pub business just eight months ago, said: "We thought it would be a nice thing to do. The yew was quite a nice looking tree, I didn't like cutting it down. When I went to the council to find out if it had a preservation order on it, the man suggested it would be nice to plant a tree somewhere else.

"Wendy was saying in the pub it might be nice to plant a few trees and Kirstie said we could plant them on their land if we wanted to."

Paul and Wendy have already paid for 49 fruit trees to be planted on the farm, offsetting the carbon footprints of themselves and five staff, but now regulars want to get involved so the couple are having a chart made up, allowing punters to pay 5 per tree and have their names printed on a plaque in front of it.

It has been suggested that everyone who pays for a tree might be entered into a prize raffle, and that apple trees could be purchased and cider made from the fruit, which donors would be invited to taste.

Andy and Kirstie were keen to get involved and start work as soon as possible.

Andy said: "I have already dug 49 holes for the first lot of trees and they will probably be delivered at the end of the month."

The 50 alpacas at the farm will be a familiar site to pub regulars as some of the animals are brought to the "Rose and Crown" for events, such as this year's Easter egg hunt.

Rose and Crown alpacas 2011

 

LICENSEE LIST

???? Mr J 1791+

COULTER Frederick 1851+ (age 37 in 1851Census)

PARSONS William 1861-71+ (also cooper age 71 in 1871Census)

KITCHINGHAM Thomas 1881-Jan/1946 dec'd (also shoemaker age 48 in 1881Census) East Kent Gazette

KITCHINGHAM Emily Jan/1946+ (widow age 70 in 1901Census) Kelly's 1903East Kent Gazette

FRIAR Alice to Apr/1949 East Kent Gazette

BOUNDS Clifford R Apr/1949+ East Kent Gazette

RUSSELL Paul & Wendy Feb/2011+

BLACK Adrian and Sharon June 2018+

 

CensusCensus

East Kent GazetteEast Kent Gazette

Kelly's 1903From the Kelly's Directory 1903

 

If anyone should have any further information, or indeed any pictures or photographs of the above licensed premises, please email:-

TOP Valid CSS Valid XTHML

 

LINK to www.pubwiki.co.uk